"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
04/23/2019 at 15:08 • Filed to: None
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"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
04/23/2019 at 15:08 • Filed to: None | 2
| 22 |
There aren’t a lot of good verified towing tests on any electric models, mostly because as far as I can work out the model X is the only one that CAN tow worth a damn. This is a comparison between 2 great tow vehicles pulling a ~3800 lb trailer over good terrain to give an idea of range and consumption. I’m not against electric cars at all, but they have a long way to go to replace ICE in some applications. Towing, road trips and off-highway travel are big ones.
144 miles to dead empty is just not long enough legs towing and that’ s with the biggest battery you can buy in a BEV towing a relatively light trailer.
The rivian can have up to 180kwh (with a rumor add on pack for an additional 50-80kwh booster pack for a total of up to* 260 kwh. Thats a lot of battery. If it used the same amount of power as the X (doubtful given the CD and size/weight of the thing) then you would be looking at over 350 miles range with MAX BATTERY MODE! Thats good. That being said, you had better hope your destination is at the end of your 350 miles, because putting 260 kwh back in, even at fast rates, is going to take HOURS.
Makes me wonder what the 180kwh model towing near its max tow would do for range. my guess is about the same as the model X; somewhere in the 150 mile range...and thats just not enough, unless the thing you are towing also has a generator running.
Actually...if you could use a high amp connector from the trailer to the tow vehicle you could use your RV generator to increase range. It wouldn’t be enough and it would be hilariously bad for the environment but it’s already there just sitting. Plus solar, if your trailer is big enough you could easily have 3kw solar on the roof. Why not? a 12kw genset and 3kw solar with the appropriate controller could net you about 13kwh (with losses) additional boost. That could put you back up into 200-300 mile range depending on load versus 100-150 mile range.
I guess people are going to have to start inventing catalyzed gensets with integrated power management for solar and high load transfer.
At that point though, you are talking about thousands in solar, generator and battery pack upgrades in addition to the high cost of the trailer. its not remotely cost effective, but it could get you to your destination with fewer stops, which would be nice.
*assuming it all actually comes out that way in the end.
Ash78, voting early and often
> HammerheadFistpunch
04/23/2019 at 15:22 |
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I think he lost me at “The Model X is a proper SUV”
If anything, it’s loosely an SUV . Ground clearance and practical offroading capabilities are meh. So it has AWD and a lot of torque...fantastic. Why don’t we compare it to the AWD Toyota Sienna?
But in a larger sense, as I’ve been semi-shopping for EVs myself lately, I find that most of them suffer from a marketing problem all around. This review excepted, almost all of the manufacturers and reviews
compare them
to other EVs. That works to a point, but it’s nonsensical in the context of conquest sales and getting people to cross over (LOLPUN).
Mercedes Streeter
> HammerheadFistpunch
04/23/2019 at 15:26 |
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I’m still trying to find it, but I recall a couple years ago a magazine tested a Model X’s towing abilities with a 1,500 lb teardrop trailer. This thing was the tiny kind you’d see behind offroaders or motorcycles that you can only lay down in. Even with that tiny trailer that wasn’t even taller than the X their range was still cut in half.
I wasn’t at all surprised. Right now EV batteries are a lot like phone batteries in that if you put a decent load on them they’ll discharge at an alarming rate. That’s part of why I’m very interested to see EV trucks. Will they find a solution or just get around it by packing the rigs with massive batteries?
7:07
> HammerheadFistpunch
04/23/2019 at 15:27 |
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TIL that outside the USA the Landcruiser has an available TT V8 diesel . Sounds like a great family rig.
AestheticsInMotion
> HammerheadFistpunch
04/23/2019 at 15:27 |
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Where is Rivian currently on the scale of “ vaporware” to “my neighborhood is full of ‘em? ”
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HammerheadFistpunch
> 7:07
04/23/2019 at 15:30 |
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1vd-ftv = drool. even in top
trim, it's derated to be understressed and reliable.
Discerning
> HammerheadFistpunch
04/23/2019 at 15:31 |
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We towed 8500lbs for a 200 mile round trip this last weekend and we had nearly half a tank left (36 gallon tank).
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HammerheadFistpunch
> AestheticsInMotion
04/23/2019 at 15:33 |
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somewhere around fiskar karma. for sure to go on sale, after that... no promises.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> Mercedes Streeter
04/23/2019 at 15:33 |
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the second thing.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> Ash78, voting early and often
04/23/2019 at 15:37 |
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As luck would have it I was reading your comment while I was walking by a model X next to a “poper SUV”...the Honda CR-V
yeah....
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HammerheadFistpunch
> Mercedes Streeter
04/23/2019 at 15:38 |
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Also I think it was edmunds.
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Ash78, voting early and often
> HammerheadFistpunch
04/23/2019 at 15:39 |
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I’ll take the ol’
Civic Wagon there if I had to climb over anything. Even with its patented
Hondafake
Realtime 4WD system.
BigBlock440
> HammerheadFistpunch
04/23/2019 at 15:44 |
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walking by a model X next to a “poper SUV”...the Honda CR-V
First time I think I’ve heard anyone refer to the CR-V as a “proper SUV”, a full-size “ crossover” parked next to a mid-size crossover, looks about what you’d expect.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> BigBlock440
04/23/2019 at 15:46 |
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The sarcasm was heavily implied.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> Discerning
04/23/2019 at 15:50 |
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I have crappy range on my tow vehicles, If I get 250 miles out of a tank Im stoked...but they are relatively small tanks and they refill in less time than it takes me to run into the bathroom.
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Mercedes Streeter
> HammerheadFistpunch
04/23/2019 at 16:00 |
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It was Edmunds! They apparently did two tests. One was with the aforementioned teardrop
Then another with a Happier Camper. Neat!
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Discerning
> HammerheadFistpunch
04/23/2019 at 16:12 |
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I would be all for an electric tow vehicle, but only if the towing range was on par with what I’m comfortable doing in a single day - which is about 4 00 miles.
nermal
> HammerheadFistpunch
04/23/2019 at 16:20 |
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Interesting to see the Aussie take on this.
Call that combo of the Tesla & trailer $150k in the US. You can get a diesel truck, a relatively yuuuuge trailer, and have $50k left over to spend on actually using the damn thing with that much cash.
Much like commuter EVs, cargo hauling EVs will take a while to be adopted. There are both sizable advantages and disadvantages to them currently. Over time that will change.
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BigBlock440
> HammerheadFistpunch
04/23/2019 at 16:20 |
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I should have known better
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HammerheadFistpunch
> nermal
04/23/2019 at 16:31 |
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Im all bout that torque and inherent efficiencies but the energy density and refueling options aren’t there for me to consider it. sure the cruiser gets crap mileage but I can carry 50 liters on the roof and not bee stranded in the desert. Thats a big deal.
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nermal
> HammerheadFistpunch
04/23/2019 at 16:52 |
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Yep, and my pickup is used to tow a trailer ~300 miles one way on the regular. An EV doesn’t fit either use case.
However, for the use cases where an EV fits it’s great. Specifically for towing, you have downsides of the massive drop in range (largely due to aero), as well as difficulty charging if needed. However, if you’re only towing 50 miles away, neither of those are an issue.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> Mercedes Streeter
04/23/2019 at 16:58 |
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So for that first test they averaged 38kwh/100km as a reference, with a ~1300 trailer.
for the second it was 32kwh/100km with the 1500 lb trailer.
Best case is 195 miles range with the wimpiest of camp trailers.
Heavier loads take you down to well double digits.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> nermal
04/23/2019 at 17:01 |
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yeah, for me the shortest distance I ever tow anything is about 150 miles. I guess I sometimes tow my small boat about 50 miles, but thats pretty rare.